REACTION: Drama Queens Episode 2

Monday’s “Drama Queens” covered the first episode of “One Tree Hill.”

In the pilot, viewers are introduced to half-brothers Lucas (Chad Michael Murray) and Nathan (James Lafferty), students at Tree Hill High who are being raised by different mothers and have virtually no relationship. But they share a dad, who has nothing to do with Lucas, and a love of basketball. We also meet Lucas’ best friend Haley (Bethany Joy Lenz) and Nathan’s girlfriend Peyton (Hilarie Burton), among other characters.

The episode was written by “One Tree Hill” creator Mark Schwahn and directed by Bryan Gordon, who helmed the show’s second episode as well. Fun fact: Gordon was also a co-executive producer for the pilot of “Wedding Band,” which starred Brian Austin Green of “Beverly Hills, 90210”… who at one point was in talks to join “One Tree Hill.”

If you watch the pilot’s climactic basketball game closely, you’ll glimpse Samantha Shelton as Reagan, a character in the series’ original pilot before her key scenes were reshot with Joy as Haley. Of course, Sophia Bush (Brooke) isn’t in the episode at all.

So what did Joy, Sophia, and Hilarie think after (re)watching it? And how was the first edition of their podcast where they actually focused on an “OTH” episode? They had lots of thoughts and so do I!

Drama Queens Episode 2, "Take Me to the Pilot"

• They were apparently drinking champagne again. Joy gave the date of the pilot. They all realized the significance of “23.” Joy read the synopsis, which was word for word from IMDb. They didn’t give the writer or director.

• Sophia declared that Craig is “so hot.” Joy apparently always thought that, but Sophia and Hilarie were “late” to realize that. They marveled over all the denim and the cuts of the jeans. Hilarie: “We blame Britney Spears for this. She ruined it for the rest of us.”

  • Awkward timing for a Britney crack.

• Hilarie argued being in Wilmington hampered their fashion, because there weren’t top stores to get clothes from, but Joy argued that there was a “relatability” in the characters wearing simpler things. Hilarie acknowledged “The O.C.” started around the same time and had “blown up” and it was the “competition.” But Joy said “The O.C.” had a “fantasy element” whereas “OTH” was more realistic.

  • I think she meant that “The O.C.” was more aspirational, which it was.

• They thought Paul and James were “groomed” similarly and Craig and Chad were too, with the same haircuts. Joy had “curly blonde hair” when she arrived in Wilmington and then they changed it. Joy was okay with it, because she knew they couldn’t all look alike, but she wishes her hair just stayed the same color. Sophia said she dyed her hair black between seasons 2 and 3 for a horror movie and came back to set with bangs “and our boss who shall not be named” was pissed, with Sophia claiming he was just grumpy because cheerleaders with bangs weren’t interested in him in high school.

  • So are they just NEVER going to say Mark’s name? I absolutely understand not wanting to name your abuser and not wanting to focus on that person. But I don’t get how you do a rewatch podcast without it.

• They discussed “the ‘Felicity’ effect” and how hairstyles could be “battles” behind the scenes. Joy noted how Michelle Williams chopped her hair off like Keri Russell did. Keri’s haircut was infamously blamed for the drop in ratings for “Felicity,” but Sophia argued “lazy writers” were actually to blame. Joy said they had a “massive battle” about their hair every episode. Looking back, Hilarie was “mortified” that she made some hair-related demands, such as the cheerleaders being able to wear ponytails at cheer practice. Joy said they’ve since learned how to “pick and choose” their battles.

• Joy brought up Lucas asking Peyton in the episode why she’s a cheerleader since she’s “the least cheery person” and said she always wondered the same thing. Hilarie said that’s why Brooke was needed — a friend whom Peyton was doing it with. She called Brooke an “anchor for Peyton.” But, as she noted, Sophia wasn’t in the pilot.

• Hilarie said she felt like a “predator” hanging out with real teen cheerleaders for the pilot scenes. She wondered what it was like for those teens to grow up seeing their experience on TV. Hilarie cited Bevin as an example, since she was living in Wilmington already and then was on the show.

• Joy, however, asked if the show really was anyone’s true experience, calling it “heightened.” They thought at the time it was scandalous that a guy impregnated two women and now as adults realize how messy things can be. Sophia smartly pointed out how the “stakes are so high” in high school because it’s your entire world. Joy noted the stakes felt high for them too, in their early 20s, and not that far out of high school.

• Hilarie felt she knew about that world “better than the adults who were writing it” and was “bossy about it” because she had lived the cheerleader life with a successful high school sports team. Hilarie: “But no one’s that good-looking.” She spoke about the “beauty element” and said they should post their “real” high school photos.

  • Those are now on the “Drama Queens” Instagram, though no specific dates or ages are given.

• Hilarie: “We couldn’t control what we said. We couldn’t control what we were wearing.” Sophia: “Or what our characters had to do.”

  • But the actors aren’t supposed to be able to control those things…

• Hilarie brought up the “sweet” tone of the pilot with Whitey’s narration, but said they were “trying to capitalize on the popularity of 8 Mile” with the “underbelly” of the “kid on the wrong side of the tracks.” She felt she could be a part of that. But “when ‘The O.C.’ got popular and we had to turn up the sexy, it was like a bait-and-switch. Do we get a say? Do we get to have an opinion about it? And we didn’t. We just had to turn up the sexy. And thankfully, we’re all really sexy.” Hilarie said they were “prudish” personally, though, and Joy said it was “really hard” for them to “play this older male idea of what a young teenage high school girl could be in a dream world or maybe was.”

• Hilarie didn’t know anyone who was having sex in high school, but Joy and Sophia did. Sophia said it was later on in high school, though and a “big deal.” She brought up her “high school sweetheart” and how he was a “true gentleman” about her not being ready. She said she had “dated three people” by the time the show started.

• They all expressed shock over Peyton coming out in a towel at Nathan’s house in front of Dan. Sophia thought it was shocking that Peyton was showering there in the first place. Hilarie said she was “mortified” doing it and didn’t want to, so she wouldn’t look at the camera. She said she still wouldn’t do such a thing today in real life. Hilarie noted Paul and her husband, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, are the same age, which added a layer of weirdness to it for her now. Sophia pointed out James’ fake nipple ring and how it had to be “glued on” by a makeup artist and then it was never seen again. 

• Hilarie: “I was never allowed to watch these shows growing up and here am I right smack-dab in the middle of it and this one’s potentially worse than what I wasn’t allowed to watch as a kid.” Hilarie said the reaction to Peyton was “so bad” after the second episode, which Joy and Sophia didn’t know. She said she was told they would take Peyton “dark” and then there would be a “moral arc” where it would be explained why she was the way she was.

• They discussed message boards and how “hideous” people could be on them. Sophia said they had to go “hard” for their characters and when they won a battle, it felt like winning a war. And then they’d go online and see negative comments about plots but be unable to say they didn’t want to do them in the first place. Hilarie said some things were supposed to be even worse and they “reeled it in.” No specifics or examples were given.

• Hilarie said they’ve discussed at conventions how it wasn’t realistic to not have parents around and for everyone to be sleeping around. They didn’t want young girls to feel like they were being left behind and not doing what was implied as “normal” by the show. Joy said they felt a “moral responsibility” to the fans and it was “tough to navigate in a young woman.”

• Sophia felt their “first sense of permission to be a little wild.” She and Hilarie turned 21 right before filming and Sophia recounted them going out for their first drink. Hilarie: “And we had money to buy our own drinks.” They lamented not having camera phones at the time to document it all for the memories. Hilarie: “Also [for] a lot of blackmail.”

• After a break, around 25 minutes in, Hilarie said Joy had pointed out to them the “structure” of the show. Hilarie said it was like nothing on TV at the time and Joy highlighted all of the parallels in the first episode with the basketball and driving scenes featuring Lucas and Nathan. She said “the whole dynamic” was “really strong.”

• Sophia explained steady-cam shots. Joy described doing one in the episode where there were pigeons and the pigeons were not cooperating during take after take. Hilarie recalled being on her first or second day and there being an alligator in the water where they filmed the roadside scene. Hilarie first named the director here and said he was a “very big deal” and noted how Chad was very experienced too. Hilarie said no one realized she “didn’t know the business at all,” such as what it meant to hit your mark. And while rehearsing, the alligator started approaching and no one acknowledged it. 

• Due to the gator, Hilarie was distracted during the rehearsal and didn’t know the “lingo.” The director then came to her trailer and said she didn’t know her lines. She responded that she did. The director allegedly said back to her, “Don’t you ever waste my time or the crew’s time again.” She cried and then “had to pull it together,” but she “never didn’t know my lines again,” though she insisted she really did know her lines then. Sophia said they learned they had to be “unflappable.” Hilarie said it set a tone of “crew first” and being a “team player,” which led her to “overcompensate” and “advocate for every department” and “fight [their] battles” for them when she probably should’ve stayed out of it.

• They talked about alligator attacks in Wilmington. Hilarie called this “the mythology that’s so fun about shooting in a small town.”

  • Alligators definitely still exist here, but I don’t think I’ve heard about any attacks in the nearly seven years I’ve lived here.

• They discussed how hot it was to shoot in July for a show set in the fall season. They said the show was intended to be a midseason replacement with a January debut, so the characters were dressed for winter. But after another show was canceled, they were put on the air in September. And instead of having a six-month lead time, they would film and the episode would air two to three weeks later and there was not a lot of time to “adjust” to “crowd reaction.” Hilarie would stress seeing negative feedback to Peyton knowing that she was filming stuff where Peyton was still a “big jerk.”

• They talked about how there was no promotional push for the show when it started. They thought it was “kind of cool” that word-of-mouth sparked the ratings growth. Sophia recalled their first “TRL” appearance and being told the last time they had a crowd that big was for Eminem. Hilarie: “We didn’t have those crowds for anybody else.” Joy at first thought Times Square was just really crowded, ha. 

• Sophia described Wilmington as a “college town” and a “retirement town,” which is fairly accurate. Sophia: “So all we had was each other, literally, for better or worse. And man, we just had no perspective outside of our little bubble.” Going to New York and seeing the fan size was like “The Twilight Zone,” Sophia said. Hilarie was used to getting instant reaction and it was different having it be “delayed” this time. She recalled her fiancé (no name given) visiting the set and one of the producers predicting the relationship wouldn’t last because her whole life was about to change.

• Hilarie said living on her own and getting to make decisions about how to spend her money “felt extravagant.” Joy said she didn’t know who she wanted to be and “tried on” different identities. Sophia said she didn’t know what it meant when people told them their lives were going to change. Sophia: “I didn’t have any of the experiences we were portraying.” She went to an all-girls school before USC, had a childhood sweetheart, etc. 

• They name-checked The Ivy Cottage, which is a vintage furniture / thrift store here in Wilmington, as well as “that great Thai place” next to it. That’s Indochine, and it’s one of Wilmington’s most popular restaurants.

• Hilarie said at “TRL” she was taught how not to be a “star-fucker” and associate with the talent and it was weird when she herself became the talent. She continued working for MTV at first, flying back and forth from Wilmington to New York for the first two seasons. 

• Sophia said the gym scenes would take 16 hours and, since the women had to be there two hours early, they’d have 18-hour days. She also detailed the timing of overnight shoots, marveling how Hilarie would then go fly to New York for her MTV job. Hilarie said season 3 was “one of my favorite seasons” because she was able to just focus on the show, not MTV too, “and I got to cut my hair.”

• Sophia said they “never said ‘no’ to anything,” which doesn’t seem to jive with them saying earlier about how they would push back on things. But here she cited interviews as an example and how she thought they had to answer every question regardless of its nature. Sophia: “We wanted to be so good, we didn’t realize we were coming apart at the seams.” Hilarie said they were “messy” and that’s what made them relatable. Sophia said she likes when people say they would be friends with Peyton, Haley, and Brooke.

• Hilarie said there’s a meme of Peyton crying in her car and her son came across it and wanted to know about it. They said it wasn’t explained in the pilot why Peyton was the way she was. Joy liked that, though, because it made her want to understand the character going forward. She and Sophia thought Peyton was “so cool” and that Hilarie was too. Hilarie was “intimidated” by Joy because she had been in a movie (one that featured some other TD stars, amazingly enough) and Sophia was intimidated by her because of her musical theater background. They recalled watching Sophia on “Nip/Tuck” together and going out to celebrate after.

• Bryan apparently always had his guitar with him and they thought he was really cool. He also had “really cute friends.” Joy said she wishes she wasn’t “so afraid of everything” that she would’ve hung out with everyone more. That was kind of sad. They also discussed hurricane season and “how they had to be grown-ups and deal with natural disasters.” 

• Sophia said they were “terrified” to be at work but “enamored with each other.” She asked Joy what it was like to reshoot some of the bigger pilot scenes. Joy revealed they didn’t actually reshoot the Lucas-Nate basketball face-off. Instead, while filming scenes for a different River Court scene, they just did shots of Joy and her reaction and inserted them into the pilot.

  • Many fans knew this already, as you never see Joy really with the other key cast members in that sequence. And, as I noted above, you can also spot Samantha Shelton in some of the shots.

• Sophia called the River Court face-off “so good.” Joy said they were “so impressed” with James and how he was “strong” and “captivating,” especially given his age, but she said she was “rooting for Lucas.” She called it a “feat” that you’re “attracted to the villain” but still rooting for the guy that’s “supposed to be the hero.” She said if they “hadn’t cast it right, shot it right, written it right, if those guys hadn’t played it right, we probably wouldn’t be sitting here today.”

  • That’s a really great observation from Joy and I’m glad she acknowledged all those critical parts, even if she didn’t give credit to the specific people responsible.

• Hilarie said James was “so sinister” in the pilot and, watching now, her mind was blown that he did that at 17. She then brought up Samantha Shelton (by name) and said she was “so cool and so fun,” but Hilarie said she was told that the role was being recast because they wanted Nathan and Haley to be a couple and Samantha just didn’t work for that kind of dynamic. Still, Hilarie admitted that when she first learned of the Naley pairing, she thought it would never work, but it ultimately being successful is a testament to James “being able to take Nathan from that dark place to a beloved daddy figure.”

• Joy said James is such a “solid” guy that that would’ve come through in Nathan at some point. But she and Sophia didn’t know Naley would be paired up when they joined the show. Sophia said that because they were “piggybacking off ‘Dawson’s Creek,’” she expected Haley and Lucas to be paired up like Dawson and Joey. Joy and Hilarie said they thought that was going to happen too. Joy admitted she doesn’t remember “most of the first season,” so she wasn’t actually sure when Hilarie asked if the characters ever “went there.” Joy said Lucas and Haley just didn’t have that “chemistry” or “sexual tension.” Hilarie commended the show for pulling off a platonic friendship that “didn’t veer off into sexual territory.”

• They brought up Haley’s reaction to Keith coming into Karen’s Cafe and joked that she was “flustered.” Joy had a crush on Craig in the beginning and recounted Paul bringing it up to him years later, embarrassing her. Joy said Craig was “one of the very few people” looking out for them. Hilarie said that “looking back,” Craig and Paul were “special.” Hilarie recalled her parents visiting as production was starting and her parents and James’ mom trying to push them together to be friends. Then her parents met Paul and warned her not to date him. Hilarie said it had never occurred to her until they said it. Sophia said it never occurred to her at the time that Paul and Craig weren’t actually old enough to be their parents. Hilarie revealed her husband auditioned for Keith and joked about them possibly hooking up then had he gotten the part.

• Hilarie said her son is “probably gonna be an actor,” but she doesn’t want him to get into it until he has a “clear sense of who he is,” which she didn’t have. Rewatching the pilot, she saw her son’s face and reactions in Peyton. Hilarie: “It’s weird seeing the kid in yourself.”

  • That must be really trippy, to watch your younger self and see shades of the child you now have. 

• Sophia said she’s “proud” of them for being defenders of one another for years and is happy they’re “taking back their joy from a place that had so much of it but also had not-joyous experiences.” She feels “protective” of herself, them, and Brooke. Sophia: “It’s nostalgic and beautiful and intense a little to watch that pilot.” Hilarie said she cried after watching it because of the sense memories that came back to her. She pointed out how at the time, they had no idea the show would become the “cornerstone” of their lives. Hilarie: “Maybe I would’ve made some different choices if I knew this was going to live forever.” Sophia: “We didn’t know what was ahead in terms of the good or the bad.”

• Hilarie asked them for their favorite moment from the pilot. Hilarie: “I feel like this is what we should do every episode. What was our favorite moment?”

  • ...So you don’t have a plan for how you’re going to dissect every episode?

• Joy and Sophia seemed kind of stumped. Hilarie said she loved Karen “ripping Dan a new one” at the car dealership. She noted Moira was the age they are now and said she would love to get that kind of part today. Joy cited the basketball face-off. She said she also loved the “iconic image” of Chad’s stand-in doing the dribbling across the bridge and said Lucas and Peyton’s scene with her almost hitting him “always sticks in [her] head.” She said she “felt” the chemistry between them and it “tugged at [her] heart.” Sophia said she agreed, specifically mentioning the basketball scene, as well as the dynamic of Lucas and Nathan being in a “gladiator battle” that neither of them chose but were forced into simply by being Dan’s sons. 

• Sophia said she could relate to “being part of a world but feeling like an outsider,” a la Peyton. Hilarie said Sophia did a good job of coming in with Brooke’s attitude, despite how she was feeling about herself in real life. Sophia brought up Peyton being angsty and driving alone as Nate was driving the party bus. Sophia: “That was the thing that made me feel seen. I have felt that. I get that.”

• Hilarie asked what they were listening to in high school. Joy said Sheryl Crow and noted Sheryl came on the show. Sophia said she was a “gangly little white girl who loved rap.” Hilarie said she wasn’t “allowed to listen to modern music” and could only listen to what they could check out at the library, such as Culture Club and David Bowie. Hilarie: “I was on a real gender-bender kick.” She liked Peyton’s “masculine energy” and said the fan base has “picked up” on that, asking if Peyton’s gay. Hilarie: “I’m like, I don’t know! There’s still time, guys!” Hilarie wanted to know where all of Peyton’s records went. Sophia said she saved some stuff for Hilarie when the show ended, but wasn’t sure what happened to the records.

• After another break, Joy announced it was “time for ‘Most Likely To’” and said they wanted to do this at the end of every episode. Sophia said they should ask fans for superlative ideas.

  • …So you do have a plan for some kind of format… but not really?

• Hilarie said that “on paper, Dan is most likely to succeed,” but that ends up being “malarkey.” They argued that Karen was the successful one because she raised a kid who loves her and who has a “strong moral character.” Hilarie also said Whitey fit the bill and noted Barry’s long career. Hilarie: “No one had a better time in Wilmington than Barry Corbin.” Joy said they should try to get him on the podcast. Sophia said she wanted to hear his stories.

• Joy’s vote for most likely to succeed in this episode was Mouth because he was “so driven and focused” as he did the play-by-play of the basketball game. She said it “set the tone as a character for him for the rest of the series,” and that he provided “ammunition and fuel for so many different storylines.” Sophia was torn between Karen and Mouth. Joy nudged her toward Haley. Sophia said the pilot is set up to give Lucas “his first taste of success” and piques the audience’s “curiosity” over whether he’s going to be able hold on to it. I thought that was a good observation.

• Hilarie then offered Wilmington as most likely to succeed, calling the show “such a love letter to that town.” She said the way it was shot was “so beautiful” and noted the tourism industry that was sparked. She said Wilmington “came out such a winner,” and when Joy said Hilarie took her answer to the question to another level, Hilarie amusingly exclaimed, “It’s a metaphor, y’all!” 

• Hilarie gave the episode for next week, “The Places You Have Come to Fear the Most,” and said it sounds “dangerous.” Sophia: “That’s because I’m showin’ up.” Sophia then dissed her hairstyle and they said they needed a female executive.

That was… a lot. It sounded like they watched the pilot together, and, as seen on Instagram, they recorded together in person again. They are still talking really fast, talking over each other, changing topics really quickly. It’s almost like it’s stream of consciousness and just whatever pops into their head without any semblance of organization. There certainly wasn’t any structure to the discussion. The “Most Likely To” segment could become interesting each week depending on how it’s done.

I wanted to give them props for giving the episode information immediately, but then they didn’t actually get into the episode and instead discussed general topics, like appearances and whatnot. There just weren’t a lot of specifics — just loosely connected tangents. For an installment that was 80 minutes long, there wasn’t a lot that directly related to the episode. In any case, I will say it’s very weird to hear them talk about Wilmington when I live here now.

Also, I appreciate constructive criticism and self-reflection. They should be looking at the show through both the lens of then and the lens of now. But do fans really want to hear their favorite stars bad-mouth their favorite show? I guess they do, based on the enthusiastic fan responses I’ve seen. It’s just striking to me how negative they can be about the show — but then they also offer effusive praise sometimes without acknowledging the contradiction. Of course, these things aren’t mutually exclusive. They can have praise and criticism. But it comes off like they want it both ways — they want to call out the bad and say how they tried to resist it and also call out the good without really giving proper credit for it or seeing how the same person or people may be responsible for both.

It’s just perplexing to me. I’m not saying a rewatch podcast has to be or should be all positive and exclusively geared toward praising the show. They should call out the missteps. But I don’t get doing a rewatch podcast when you won’t even acknowledge the creator / showrunner / writer / director. I am in no way excusing or condoning Mark’s behavior It’s despicable and I’ve written about it at length. But maybe you shouldn’t do a rewatch podcast if you can’t really talk about all aspects of the show.

The mentions of “The O.C.” were really interesting to me, especially as “Welcome to the OC, Bitches” hasn’t mentioned “One Tree Hill” at all. (I plan to ask Melinda Clarke about this during Friday’s exclusive Zoom chat.) Notably, Kast Media is doing an excellent job with the production value on “Welcome to the OC, Bitches.” iHeartRadio is obviously a bigger name, but the quality difference is pretty astounding. “Welcome to the OC, Bitches” is just such a better product. Sure, the “Drama Queens” Instagram is on point, but if you’re not going to provide the full video recording, at least make the audio version a better listening experience and far more organized. Based on things so far, I’m guessing “Drama Queens” will fall somewhere in between “Welcome to the OC, Bitches” and “9021OMG” for me, if I had to rank them based on my enjoyment.

It’s not known how many podcast installments they prerecorded together, but if nothing else, I hope someone gives them this feedback and they make adjustments ASAP: Slow down, stick to a format, and focus on the actual episode.

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