REACTION: Drama Queens Episode 3

Monday’s “Drama Queens” centered around the second episode of “One Tree Hill.”

In “The Places You Have Come to Fear the Most,” Lucas (Chad Michael Murray) struggles in his first Ravens game and Peyton (Hilarie Burton) clashes with Nathan (James Lafferty) over his treatment of Luke. Lucas also discovers Peyton’s secret hobby and exes Dan (Paul Johansson) and Karen (Moira Kelly) deal with their respective feelings about Luke joining the Ravens.

Notably, the episode marks the introduction of Brooke (Sophia Bush) and it’s also the first with a title that comes from a song — in this case, Dashboard Confessional’s “The Places You Have Come to Fear the Most.” Like the pilot, this episode was written by creator Mark Schwahn and directed by Bryan Gordon.

Hilarie, Sophia, and Bethany Joy Lenz (Haley) naturally had lots to say about it.

Drama Queens Episode 3, "Kissing is Gross"

• They did an ad at the beginning, saying this edition was sponsored by Hulu, where the “iconic teen drama” can be streamed.

• They gave the episode title, but not the writer or director. Hilarie said they just finished watching the episode and she didn’t expect to be affected by it. Sophia said they all cried at the end. They apparently watched together over Zoom, as they’re in different locations. 

  • It’s interesting that they’re watching together remotely. I don’t think Jennie and Tori or Rachel and Melinda are doing that. I think there are pros and cons to it.

• Joy said they’re realizing what captured fans’ hearts as they rewatch with “fresh eyes.” Sophia said seeing it all put together, with the editing and music, really makes a difference. They loved the ending with Lucas telling Peyton, “Your art matters. It’s what got me here.” Joy: “It’s one small, vulnerable moment… Immediately I was like 16 again.” Joy and Sophia brought up high-concept shows — I think she specifically mentioned “Riverdale” — and how people are still watching the more simplistic and emotional “OTH.” Hilarie: “That line is the line that fans say to me more than any other.” She said a fan embroidered it for her and it’s hanging in her home.

• Hilarie watched this episode after revisiting her hometown and hanging out with her old friends and explained how she wasn’t vulnerable with them as a teen like the characters on the show are. Joy: “It’s everything you want to have the guts to say when you’re that age.” Joy wanted to know how it felt for Hilarie when she filmed the scene. Hilarie said she was too scared about the filming process and preoccupied by that and was “mean” to Chad and a “snarky little brat” to him. Now watching it back, she said, “I believe in the power of that edit. They did a really solid job making that feel like a punch in the gut.” Sophia made the point that you’re not “conscious” of the end result when you’re in the gym for hours filming the scene.

• Based on time sheets, Sophia guessed they spent 35,000 hours filming the show over nine seasons: “So that’s why we don’t remember anything, guys!” She’s excited that they now get to experience what the fans have, because they couldn’t take it in during the production of it. Hilarie mentioned the watch party they had in Honey Grove and Joy recalled one in Wilmington.

• Joy brought up the “introduction of Brooke Davis.” Sophia found her hairstyle “sort of charming” because it’s “innocent and sweet,” but she hated her plucked-out eyebrows. Hilarie said she thought Sophia resembled and embodied actresses Janine Turner of “Northern Exposure” and Sherilyn Fenn.

  • Sherilyn was on “Dawson’s Creek.” They did not discuss that Barry Corbin starred on “Northern Exposure.” Charles Rosin (executive producer, Beverly Hills, 90210) also worked on it.

• Joy thought Brooke gave the show “energy” because she was “bubbly and fun” but also had a “depth” to her. They discussed the way Sophia delivered the “unless I get fat” line. She explained she couldn’t relate to the overt sexiness of the character but understood the “fear” and insecurities. Sophia said it was “honest” to play the line as a “deep-seeded fear” and not a joke. She brought up Brooke taking off her top in Luke’s car (not in this episode) and said she thought it was a one-time stunt and didn’t realize her character was going to be “this outlandish girl.” At the time she didn’t think girls were “promiscuous” like that, but now thinks it wasn’t even her place to judge what is and isn’t promiscuous of women. But Sophia speculated that as the show went on, they were “tired of fighting” with her about the character and decided to make Brooke more like her. Hilarie: “You won the battle!” Sophia: “I won!” 

• Sophia liked the “bold” things that came later for her, such as trashing the rival coffee shop to Karen’s Cafe (I’m sure Hilarie had no clue what she was talking about). Sophia had “no idea” how Brooke would evolve from the beginning of the series, but was told that so many characters were “dealing with sadness” and they needed someone who was “happy and likes to mix it up.” But the “unless I get fat” line was a “hint” to her of who Brooke really was.

• The first break featured another, but different, Hulu commercial with them plugging “OTH.” Nanny Carrie was referenced, as was Deb and Skills’ relationship, the “heart-eating dog,” and Brooke living without her parents. After the break, Joy marveled over Brooke’s “heroic journey.” Sophia: “I loved that she made it feel possible for so many people.” She also argued Brooke found her place with women and wasn’t someone who got her “validation from men.”

  • I don’t necessarily agree with that. Julian was a huge part of Brooke’s journey and she spent the first six seasons seeking validation from men until she got it from Julian. Yes, she was an independent woman in her career and she was ready to embark on a family on her own via adoption, but there was a good chunk of her that wasn’t fulfilled until Julian committed to her.

• After Sophia started to do a slam about how “a group of old men writing for us made us say shit that teenage girls would never say,” there was a tangent about what their porn names would be, with the help of their unnamed podcast producer (whom we couldn’t hear but apparently typed something to them that Sophia saw). Their point, though, was that that’s something teenage girls wouldn’t talk about. Hilarie: “You handled the naughty talk, Joy.” Joy said she spoke up against it because she didn’t think it was stuff teenage girls would say and she personally was “really conservative at the time.” 

• Joy claimed that when she joined the series, she was told, “This show is about fucking and sucking.” This stunned Hilarie and Sophia. Sophia: “I just almost spit La Croix out of my mouth.” Joy claimed she was further told, “If she’s gonna be prude, she can’t be on this show.” But she felt comfortable because of the character she was playing and didn’t think Haley would be the one doing the naughty things.

  • Joy’s allegation goes against the claim from last week that they had to “up the sexy” after “The O.C.” started taking off. Joy would’ve joined the show and been told the “fucking and sucking” thing before “The O.C.” even premiered.

• Hilarie observed that it was “two episodes in a row now” with Haley making comparisons to Dawson and Joey. She asked Joy if she thought Lucas and Haley were hooking up. Joy did at the time, saying she thought it was the original plan, but she and Chad had “no chemistry so it just didn’t work.”

• Hilarie said she hadn’t kissed many boys at this point and it was “weird” kissing James. Neither of them had experience making out on television. She said doing it the first time is the weirdest thing, because you don’t know what to do with your tongue, your hands, etc. And since she was 21 and James was 17, “there was a legality thing” on Hilarie’s mind. She described how there were 40 people watching them in the middle of the night as they tried to shoot the car makeout scene and so many of the shots were just James’ hands on her body. 

• Hilarie called it “so traumatic” and revealed she was confused when cut was called and James exclaimed, “SSORG!” He explained to her that it was “GROSS” backward. That reminded her that she was dealing with an actual teenager. Hilarie: “It was gross, guys, sorry.” She joked that she was “jealous” because James’ kisses with Joy were “passionate” and “gentle” and “loving,” whereas she and James were “like two cobras, just biting each other.” Sophia thought it felt “authentic,” though, and said that quality is what’s so special about the show. 

• There was a tangent in which Joy discussed her first kiss in real life, which led Sophia to bring up that she had “one of the most aggressive and inappropriate kisses” of her career on the show. Sophia said she will never reveal the name “to the audience,” but she was bitten by the dude and she shoved him. The guy claimed he was “being sexy.” She said the moment probably exists in an outtake “and for his sake I hope it doesn’t come out.”

  • The “OTH” Facebook group I’m in has had multiple posts all week with fans trying to figure out who Sophia was talking about. Everyone thinks their guess is the correct one. I just keep rolling my eyes. You weren’t there. You don’t know, despite what your theory is.

• Hilarie then shared her own real-life first kisses (no tongue vs. tongue) and so did Sophia. One noteworthy part of it was Sophia saying she was “Haley James,” thinking she would get married in high school to her high school boyfriend. 

• After another break, Hilarie brought up Bryan, whom they all loved. Sophia said they were “robbed” when he left the show for other projects and said things might’ve been “better” if he stayed. Sophia: “We were all so in love with him.” Hilarie was crushing on him even though she was in a relationship. Hilarie said he’s “stayed a babe” and is “the guy he was then.” Joy said his sincerity comes through in his acting too. Sophia liked Jake comforting Lucas after Dan’s “son” remark. 

• Hilarie claimed she was told in season 2 that Peyton and Jake were “endgame,” but thought they only told her that to throw her off the “trail.” Sophia said she was told “from day one that Lucas and Peyton were endgame. I signed up for a pilot in which Peyton was not willing to admit she loved the emo boy.” Hilarie called it a “mind game.” Sophia: “Heaven forbid they just tell us what our jobs are as actors because we’re professionals. Why did they want us to be weirdly invested in things behind the scenes?”

  • That last remark confuses me, because based on so many other things they’ve said, they chose to be involved in things behind the scenes and needed to fight back on this or that. Which is it? They wanted to be involved or didn’t want to be?

• Joy said she thought Lucas and Haley were endgame going into it until their “sibling” chemistry became clear. She said she wanted to see, in rewatching now, when Haley starts tutoring Nathan (and thinks it’s “later in season 1”) because she thought it was originally intended just to be a conflict of interest for Haley, but once the chemistry was clear with her and James, the plans changed. Joy: “It would be nice to talk with some of the writers on our show who were there at the beginning and find out.”

  • LOL at Joy not knowing when Haley starts tutoring Nathan. It’s pretty imminent!

  • Also interesting that Joy wants to talk to the writers now when in other comments, they’ve slammed the writers’ crappy scripts. Again, which is it?

• Hilarie claimed she was told after the pilot that Nathan and Haley were going to be a big thing. That shocked Joy and Sophia. Hilarie said that plot was part of the recasting of Reagan / Haley and that they needed someone who was “sexy but doesn’t act like it” to draw Nathan in and “fix him.” Joy joked that her “co-dependent issues” worked with the storyline. That led to a tangent about fixing people and why you shouldn’t date guys with “baggage.”

• Hilarie brought up Dan, calling it a “Dan-centric episode.” She marveled over how young the parents looked. Joy noted how the show appeals to a “broad age range,” including adults, and is liking watching the “parent storyline now” when she didn’t care about it years ago. Hilarie said she understood Dan thinking it was ridiculous that Nathan and Lucas were fighting over a girl, even though at the time she felt “slighted.” Hilarie: “To find myself as a grownup siding with Dan Scott, what have I become?!” 

• Joy said Karen’s refusal to go to the Ravens game was a “hard choice to justify.” Hilarie said they have “fake high school memories” along with their real ones, and she got “chills” when Karen said Tree Hill High knows too much, in regard to her past. Sophia likened it to how they felt about “OTH” and now they’re “taking it back.” She also stressed how small Wilmington was and how being isolated there could make “failure seem so much bigger.” She was saying that as a parallel to Karen, and how she was probably thinking that everyone in the gym knew her secrets. Sophia: “There’s no anonymity in a town like Tree Hill. That’s kind of the point.”

• Joy noted how this episode had the theme song for the first time. She said she doesn’t know whether to “hide” when the song comes on when she’s in public or be “proud of it.” Hilarie said she sometimes wonders if she’s being “punked” when she hears it out. Joy said Gavin’s whole album is “really strong,” and noted the ending song in the episode is his too, calling him an “amazing songwriter.” They discussed how he was “in and out,” coming to Wilmington for events / show appearances. Hilarie remembered Joy toured with him and Joy gushed about him being a “good guy.” Hilarie said he should come to the “OTH” conventions: “Gavin, if you’re listening, don’t be a dork. Come hang out with us. We’re a fun time.” Joy: “We should just bring him on this show, is what we need to do.” Joy told a story about seeing him open a Billy Joel concert and Gavin let her hop on the mic “for a second.” Joy: “So I sang at a Billy Joel concert, technically.”

  • So… do they not have plans to have any writers / crew on the podcast or any of the musical guests?

• Hilarie brought up “the Peyton art thing” and said “people all the time want to know” who did the artwork. They didn’t remember the artist’s name and Hilarie wasn’t sure it was the same person for all six seasons with Peyton. Well, I can tell you the name: Helen Ward. I interviewed her for the original TDW back in 2009. And then after I typed that here, their producer in the chat told them her name. Hilarie still wasn’t sure if Helen did all of her seasons. She did. Joy: “I hope she’s making money off of that.”

• Hilarie said they had “such a great art department.” She said she did personally draw things during the pilot, but it’s the “trash” art she pulls down from Peyton’s walls. Hilarie said she’s not an “arty lady,” but she came to the show with a music interest, and thought the “transition to music” for Peyton was “art imitating life.” She compared it to Brooke becoming more like Sophia and the show making Haley a musician like Joy herself. Joy: “I did love that about the show. There was a heavy bent on our artistic prowess, whether it was writers, or people who were reading great literature, great art, great music. Those are our cornerstones of our show… that are a little harder to find now in this genre.”

• Joy didn’t come on the show thinking Haley would be a musician, but Mark — the first time they’ve said his name!!! — heard her singing to herself in a parking lot and asked her if she wanted to sing on the show. She wasn’t sure at the time, but now she’s “really glad” she did and said it “opened up a lot of doors” for her. 

  • Honestly surprised this part wasn’t cut out.

• Sophia said the show makes people feel “represented” no matter your interest or gender. Hilarie wondered if boys cry on TV and said because she didn’t watch “teen dramas,” she only knows about Dawson because of the infamous crying meme. Joy: “I feel like there was an episode of Luke Perry crying on ‘90210.’” Hilarie: “Chad was really, really good at being vulnerable as a boy and not having to play that toxic masculinity thing… he went for it.” Sophia then actually gave credit to Chad for wanting to play Lucas, not Nathan, and “do something different” than he had done previously in his career.

  • Hell yeah Luke Perry cried on “Beverly Hills, 90210”! In some of the series’ most memorable scenes in seasons 1, 3, 6, and 10!

  • I love that Sophia was able to see Lucas as Lucas and evaluate him as a character, and appreciate Chad’s acting work, independent of any personal feelings she may have toward Chad. That is really mature and I give her a lot of respect for that. Hopefully it continues.

• Sophia also called James a “sensitive soul” and thought it was “so interesting” that he had to be “bad” and how they had to “push themselves” to be characters that weren’t necessarily who they were. (Uh, isn’t that acting??) Hilarie brought up James’ audition tape and how he was “so chill” when he came in the room and then had a “turn” when it was time to do the scene.

• Sophia noted how Hilarie, Chad, and Joy can get really emotional in scenes and she used to wonder how they made it look so easy. She asked Joy one time how she did it and Joy just looked to the side and cried. Sophia: “It was the most magical thing I’d ever seen.” She said it was hitting her now that Chad and Joy came in with the “most experience” and had “amazing performer skill sets.” Joy noted that Sophia got those opportunities, to go to those emotional places, as the show went on. Joy said how the next episode has the back-of-the-car stuff with Brooke and we get to learn more about her.

• Toward the end, Sophia said they heard how much the fans like the “Most Likely To” segment, so they “dug up” more superlatives, calling them “so ridiculous.” She encouraged fans to send in more of them. For this week, it was “Most Likely to Go on ‘The Bachelor.’” Sophia said Deb, even though she hasn’t been a part of the episodes yet. Hilarie said Rachel, even though she also hasn’t been on yet, and Joy agreed. Hilarie noted how Danneel posed for Maxim and said that she thought, after she (Hilarie) left the show, that Dan and Rachel ended up together and did a TV show together. To her, that was proof she’d be “Bachelor” quality. Sophia agreed with Hilarie’s argument. I don’t quite get the connection.

  • Maybe I missed understood last week, but I thought the “Most Likely To” superlative was to supposed to relate to the specific episode. I guess not.

• Joy said fans are “flooding” their inbox and they have “listener questions.” The first fan wanted to know what their first impressions of each other were, whether they are the same now, and whether filming on location made them closer. Joy said she still thinks Sophia is “beautiful” and she was “amazed” to find out she’s “brilliant” as well. Hilarie said she learned how smart Sophia was when they started getting the crew Best Buy gift certificates for Christmas and Sophia managed all the money. Sophia: “That was pre-Venmo!” Joy said Hilarie is still “beautiful and so cool and so soulful and smart.”

• Sophia called Hilarie “wickedly, intimidatingly cool and so yourself.” She said Hilarie and Joy both have a “deep well of expert-level musical theater knowledge” that can intimidate her because that’s not her area of expertise. Hilarie said Joy is still the “All-American girl-next-door” and “wholesome” but has a “naughty streak” that she “felt privileged to know about.” She called “party Joy” “fun.” Sophia called Joy “beautiful and talented” and said she “sing[s] like an angel,” and that because she was playing Haley, they first thought she was innocent, but their “whiskey nights” changed that. Hilarie: “Bad girls club, here we come!”

• The next fan wanted to know if Hilarie actually really almost ran over Chad in the pilot. Hilarie said that at the time she hadn’t driven since high school and wasn’t sure if her license was even valid. It was a vintage car with poor brakes and wonky gears. Hilarie said she had to hit a mark with the car, right in front of Chad, but she had trouble hitting her marks just walking, let alone while driving. Hilarie: “Chad’s quick, he’s limber, he survived.” This was funny.

• Hilarie asked for fans to keep sending questions “because it’s fun to figure out what you want to talk about. We know what we want to talk about.” Hilarie then brought up Joy’s “secret talent,” but didn’t say what it was. Sophia then picked up the story, saying how she brought Jane Walker (the brand that’s sponsoring the podcast and was all over the theme song music video) liquor to Joy’s ranch and Joy started making drinks with rose petals. Joy revealed she loves “mixology” and got really into it during the pandemic. Joy: “It’s the closest I know to get to potion-making.” That made me laugh. Joy said they would post the recipe for her drink and another called the “Iconic” that they created with Jane Walker.

• Hilarie gushed about Joy’s ranch and their hangout, calling it “the first time we’ve gotten to hang out in somebody’s backyard since we were in Wilmington.” Sophia lamented how they’ve spent years traveling to cities like Montreal and Paris for work and don’t get to just sit at home with each other.

  • Cry me a river, Soph! Really reminded me of Tori and Jennie not realizing how privileged they are when they complain about their lives. Also, nothing’s stopped them from hanging out in someone’s yard all these years. They just… didn’t. And that’s on them.

• Joy: “So how should we wrap up, guys?” Hilarie: “Well, we need to talk about what our favorite lines of the episode are.” Joy called “your art matters” the “star line.” Hilarie said it’s (figuratively) “tattooed on her heart” and the “heart of Peyton” and that “everything comes back to that.” Sophia called it “iconic,” but loves the “support” line that follows: “It’s what got me here.” Hilarie: “Boys should always talk to us that way. Tell us what we want to hear.” Sophia said the “sleeper hit” line for her was Karen saying, “That place knows too much.” Hilarie said it’s the line that hits them now as “grownups.”

• They expressed their love for one another as they wrapped up. Hilarie said the podcast is their “lady break,” where they get to “pause and be 17-year-old girls again.” Hilarie: “Alright, guys. Saddle up. We’ll see you next week. We’re your drama queens.”

  • I like that the podcast ends with the “Drama Queens” theme song again, just as it opens with it. I could listen to that little ditty on repeat.

This was the first time they recorded in different locations from one another, but I don’t think the podcast suffered from it all. I did think it was a little bit easier to distinguish their voices this time, maybe because I’m getting more used to the audio or maybe being in separate rooms helped in some way. But I can’t even count up all the Instagram comments asking for the full video version of the podcast. And I agree with all those fans. I think it’s a major mistake to only offer up clips (which were lower-quality this week too).

They started their discussion at the end of the episode, which I sorta get, since it seemed like they had just finished watching the episode minutes before and were therefore still feeling the impact of the last lines. But it was clear then and again at the end of the podcast that they still don’t have any kind of organization and that kind of boggles my mind. Hilarie and Joy first revealed they were embarking on a rewatch podcast last July. Nearly a year later, it finally launched. And they still don’t have a solid format? What were they doing the last 11 months? Why weren’t they figuring out a structure for the podcast?

I appreciated that they got deep with some of their comments and observations about the characters and storylines, but they seemed to only hit a couple of the major beats of the episode, versus thoroughly discussing it. I didn’t need the long tangent about their personal first kisses (or the other tangents, either). It just felt like something to discuss on a “girlfriends” podcast, which is not what this is. This is a rewatch podcast that didn’t have a first kiss in this episode, so why talk about it and your personal lives right now? I didn’t bother taking notes on that stuff because it’s just not what matters in the scope of revisiting the show.

I’m glad, however, that they had a lot of praise for various aspects of the show and acknowledged that the editing and music are such key reasons why the show worked — it wasn’t just because of their acting and things they personally did, which is the impression they gave in the first edition of the podcast. I think this installment was better than the last two weeks, and I have hope that they’ll learn and improve as they go.

Right now I’m feeling encouraged… but we’ll see what next week brings!

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