“The Outsider” was the subject of Tuesday’s “Welcome to the OC, Bitches.”
In the fifth episode of the series, as Ryan (Ben McKenzie) gets closer to Marissa (Mischa Barton), he gets a job and befriends a dangerous co-worker (played by Paul Wesley). Meanwhile, Sandy (Peter Gallagher) advises Jimmy (Tate Donovan) amidst his financial scandal while Kirsten (Kelly Rowan) and Julie (Melinda Clarke) deal with the fallout during a girls’ trip.
The hour was the only one directed by Jesús Salvador Treviño (who also directed one episode of “Dawson’s Creek”) and one of three written by Melissa Rosenberg, who was also a co-executive producer for the first season. Famously, Rosenberg went on to write the screenplays for all the movies in the Twilight Saga. (And, as last week’s Teen Drama Trivia highlighted, several Twilight stars coincidentally appeared on “The O.C.”)
Joining Rachel Bilson (Summer) and Melinda for their discussion was Tate himself, who in addition to starring on “The O.C.,” also directed season 3’s “The Game Plan” (plus two episodes of “Gossip Girl”).
Welcome to the OC, Bitches Episode 5, “The Outsider with Tate Donovan”
Melinda and Rachel began by saying how “excited” they were. Like with Peter, Melinda did an amusing introduction for Tate with both serious and fun facts. Tate: “What a great intro.” Rachel then did the “Joshua” from “Friends.” She then admitted to having a crush on Tate as a 10-year-old watching Memphis Belle. Tate: “How come you never told me that all those years we worked together?” They joked about whether it would be “inappropriate.” Melinda called Tate an “official ‘80s heartthrob” and he strongly disagreed. They talked about a few of his other films, which he said “tanked.” Rachel: “They live very fully in my heart.”
Amusingly, one of Rachel’s Instagram hashtags for a clip of this podcast was “#JOSHUA.”
Melinda said Tate has a “very impressive resume” and wanted to hear about “Magnum P.I.” He then shared a story that he said makes him look like an “asshole.” He was in college when cast on that show, had a “great time” in Hawaii, Tom Selleck was “the greatest guy,” and then he scored SpaceCamp. He was invited to a “Magnum” reunion and scoffed, saying, “I’m a film actor now.” Tom then personally called him to encourage him to join the reunion. And he STILL said no “to Tom Selleck himself.” Tate said he never got to tell Tom “what an idiot I was,” prompting Rachel to quip, “I’m sure he’s listening to this podcast.” Tate: “I’m sure Tom Selleck is a big fan of ‘Welcome to the OC, Bitches.’ Well, he is now!”
Funnily enough, hours after listening to this part, I watched the “Friends” reunion special (finally signed up for HBO Max in anticipation of the “Gossip Girl” spinoff!) and seeing Tom participate in that I think really demonstrated the lesson Tate learned here: You don’t be a jerk and say no to participating in reunions that helped you get where you are.
The idea that young actors are “arrogant” led Rachel to acknowledge that some of them were “little assholes” when Tate went on to direct on “The O.C.” Rachel: “I hope I wasn’t as bad as it’s come off… you get influenced, I’d say, by your surroundings. Put it that way.” Tate acknowledged “everyone” was caught up in “the hype.” Rachel: “If I ever added to any of the assholeness, I want to apologize on record here right now.” Tate said she was a “total sweetheart to work with” and that he had a “funny” story to share, but he wasn’t sure if he could tell it on air. Rachel said to tell it and then they’d decide later, ha. Melinda said Tate used to call the younger cast “knuckleheads,” but his teasing was a “compliment.”
As for the story, Tate said Rachel was an “amazing actress” and that he used to call her “the cute machine” and that she was “joyous” to work with. But as he directed her, after the first take, he wanted to give her character motivation but he didn’t want to “insult” her. So he gave some advice and added, “I’m sure you read the script,” and she responded, “Tate, I don’t read scripts — I smoke pot.” They all thought this was “hilarious.” Rachel: “Tate, that tracks so hardcore.” She called it “so on brand,” not just the pot aspect but not having any idea what was going on. Rachel: “That quote is going down in history.” Tate: “It’s one of the best quotes I’ve ever gotten from an actress.” Tate said Rachel then nailed the scene and it was “effortless” after some direction. Rachel thanked him for being an “amazing director.” Melinda told Tate that he has to come back when they get to that episode on the podcast. He readily agreed, saying it would be “awesome.”
Rachel said rewatching the show has been a “little trippy” and “insane” and asked Tate if he’s ever rewatched before. He hadn’t until now and he thought it was “great.” Tate: “This sounds terrible, but I forgot how good we were.” Melinda said she’s had the same thought. Tate said he now “understood why it was successful,” something he couldn’t necessarily see when they were making it. Tate told Melinda, “You are my favorite story in the whole ‘O.C.’” He noted how small of a part Melinda had in the pilot. Melinda revealed that they started negotiations for her to become a series regular while filming the pilot because things were going so well, but the plans were halted until later on. She thought it was a “financial thing” and they had to “pay our dues” first. Tate said he thought they were planning on divorcing Jimmy and Julie right away and Julie wouldn’t stay on the show. He told Melinda, “You came out of nowhere and took over the show… Julie Cooper is the shit.” Rachel agreed with him.
Melinda noted all the research they’ve done for this podcast and the “years of interviews” she’s read that Josh did, and recounted how the fro-yo line helped Josh realize the “kind of energy that needs to be in the show” to represent the “superficial” O.C. housewife. Tate: “You’re the original, original ‘Housewife.’” Melinda said she would have to get the “giggles out” before doing some of the lines, especially during scenes with Tate. Now rewatching it back as the parent of a young adult, she sees Julie as so “selfish,” but Tate said Melinda herself helped “mitigate” the selfishness and made it “believable.” Tate went on to say that he especially liked that in this episode you learn about Julie’s past.
Melinda made an insightful comment that while Jimmy and Julie were “villain” characters, you (as the actor) never play it as a villain and she didn’t see Julie as a villain. And, she said, since Tate is so “likeable… it’s hard to dislike Jimmy.” Rachel agreed, saying he brings a “warmth.” Melinda revealed that the crew loved Tate so much, they sang happy birthday to him… “every single day he was on set.” They credited their DP for that. Tate admitted he “didn’t know if it was a compliment” and saw it as “wasting time.”
After a break, Rachel asked Tate to share how he was cast. He said it was a typical process, reading for different producers and execs. He revealed he read with Daryl Hannah for the Kirsten role and then took it back. Melinda realized he meant Kelly Lynch (Laurel, 90210). He said he was “angst-ridden” and really wanted the part, even though he didn’t think the pilot would be “successful.” He called himself a “pessimist” (join the club, Tate!). Melinda recalled calling Tate like a decade ago and him telling her he booked the “Damages” pilot and how he was “so excited.” Melinda said working on a show is such a “social thing” and the connections she forms with her colleagues are why she does it — colleagues like Tate.
Melinda asked Tate if he was “bummed” when Jimmy was written off. Tate admitted he was “devastated.” He recounted getting a call from executive producer Bob DeLaurentis that he was being “cut out” and would only shoot seven episodes of the season. Tate: “I always kind of felt like they were gonna cut me… you don’t realize how insecure I am!” He felt like Jimmy was “an important influence but such a terrible parent to Marissa.” He credited being unsure whether Jimmy would “go far” as the reason he started shadowing the directors and learning behind-the-scenes things. He’s “ever grateful to those guys for giving me my first shot.” He called directing “such a good thing for your acting, for your whole life.” Tate: “America needs female directors. It’s ridiculous how few females direct television or films. It’s starting to change, but we need you guys to direct. That’s my pitch. And both of you guys would make fantastic directors.” Melinda: “Fantastic — this is Tate’s favorite word and Jimmy’s as well.” She asked if he improvised that a lot. Tate guessed that Josh heard him say “fantastic” once and then put it in the script.
Rachel said she wanted Tate’s take on Camp Gallagher and the capture the flag game. He immediately started laughing. Melinda recalled how Tate and Peter held hands during the game. Tate: “We were so baked and so wasted. It was one of the more fun nights— Camp Gallagher remains one of the best weekends of my life. I smoked so much weed that weekend, that night.” Melinda said she’s “not a big pot smoker” and is “not good at it at all,” so she remembers feeling “really uncomfortable and wanting to leave.” Tate: “I’m sorry. I should’ve held your hand.”
At 30 minutes in, Melinda asked if they should get into the episode. Rachel: “I guess so. I’m just having so much fun talking to Tate.” Tate: “It was an excellent episode.” Rachel gave the synopsis and Melinda gave the director’s name. Quipped Tate, “Should’ve been a female.” Melinda guessed they only had one or two female directors throughout the series. She then gave the writer’s name and some of Melissa’s credits. Rachel: “Twilight? What’s that?” Melinda: “A lot of big writers started on this show.”
Rachel said the episode started with a good song and said how they like to discuss the music moments. Tate liked one of Summer’s early lines, calling it an example of the “genius of Josh’s writing,” how he captured that teenagers pick up on things and are “smarter than their parents” and “know what’s really going on.” Tate said watching the show now as a parent, Seth’s line about parents working for their kids hit him differently now. Rachel as a parent now agreed with the line. Melinda said that from her research, she learned The Crab Shack is based on the real-life Crab Cooker in Newport Beach where EP McG would hang out. Melinda: “Little trivia there.”
Rachel pointed out how Paul Wesley went on to become a “known actor” with “The Vampire Diaries.” Melinda, who was on “TVD” (as she and I discussed in our 2010 interview), said she thinks Paul and Ben are “best friends” in real life. Melinda: “He was a scary character for ‘The O.C.’” Tate: “Well, he ended up shooting someone, so.” Rachel: “What I was most scared of is he and Ryan had matching leather bracelets.” Tate: “That’s what tough guys from Chino did.”
Melinda liked Sandy hiding from the Newpsies and reiterated her “love” of the “Sandy-Seth relationship.” Tate said he always got the sense from Josh that he and his own dad were close and had a great relationship. Melinda said Josh “didn’t go into that” with them, but she read that in interviews. Rachel, being BFFs with Josh, confirmed, “Steve and Josh are very tight.” Something I just learned from this: Steve Schwartz invented My Little Pony! Woah. That’s quite the claim to fame. Tate noted the show’s incorporation of it (which now makes a lot more sense!) and Rachel said how Princess Sparkle and Captain Oats have been reunited, as seen on her Instagram. Tate: “I gotta follow you guys.”
Melinda called this a “great episode” for Tate / Jimmy. She called Julie “fearless” in her determination to still go on the girls’ trip. They talked about different beaches they would film at and the beach scenes in this episode, with one of them leading Marissa and Summer to the Crab Shack. Melinda thought it was amusing that Marissa was upset about not having money without being upset about the larger issue of why Jimmy’s credit cards were cut off — “the problems of the children in the O.C.” Rachel brought up Ryan asking Marissa out. Tate said he was “pretty aggressive” and “masculine” in his determination to ask her out again. Rachel: “Maybe that speaks to me. I like an aggressive man.”
After another break, Melinda said as an O.C. native, there was “always a rivalry between the coastal kids and the inland kids… but people weren’t bringing guns to parties.” Tate: “The show did a good job of setting up the class system and how tricky that is.” Melinda noted that parts of Newport Beach are “way higher end” than where she grew up “a few miles south.” They liked the line where Donnie called Luke an “Abercrombie & Fitch water polo-playing bitch” since Chris in real life was an Abercrombie model.
Tate said he was excited to see the Cooper dog in the episode, but amusingly pointed out that he was walking the dog in the middle of the street. He recalled protesting at the time and being told it was necessary for the shot. Melinda suggested that it might’ve been okay in a gated community. She said Tate’s scenes with Peter are “so good.” They marveled over the golf scene being at Trump’s golf course. Tate recalled an instance when shooting that where Peter wanted to change up the lines and how he, Tate, was “insecure” and “intimidated” by him. Tate was “uptight” and “got so angry” that Peter changed the scene, even though the director approved. Tate: “I was in the worst mood during that whole golf scene. And I mean, it kind of worked.” After they wrapped, Peter invited him to stick around and play golf. Though he was still pissed off, he agreed. Tate: “We played four hours of golf, 18 holes, and I must’ve said five words to him... I was such an idiot… I feel so bad about that.” They’ve never spoken about it since. Rachel: “You’re airing a lot of dirty laundry.” Melinda: “That scene stands out for me as great acting and now you’re telling me it was real.”
Tate said he sometimes finds that scenes inform his moods and how he’s feeling about things and asked if that happens to them too. Rachel agreed while Melinda quipped, “It’s all about the clothes for me.” Dressing like Julie gets her into character. Melinda then made another insightful comment about how Jimmy is “not living in a true reality” but rather “his perception of the world.” She noted how the audience can tell how screwed Jimmy is, but he and Julie are trying to hold on to their “ideal of Orange County.” Melinda called it a “harsh, harsh line” when Jimmy told Sandy he doesn’t know what it’s like to have to provide for a family. Melinda: “You just grabbed him by his balls and yanked.”
Tate cracked up when Melinda and Rachel told him Peter’s reaction to seeing Kirsten-Jimmy scenes and realizing the connection they had. Tate loved seeing Jimmy and Sandy play video games. Melinda pointed out “the balls on Jimmy” to keep referencing Kirsten. Rachel: “I couldn’t believe it. My jaw dropped to the floor. That was balls.” Melinda: “You’re lifting your leg in territory where it shouldn’t be.” But, she added, “Josh made the point that no matter what Jimmy does, it’s so hard to dislike him.” Tate: “Somebody must’ve disliked him because he was out in a couple episodes later.”
Melinda: “I think it’s important to note our responsibility to the other characters on the show.” Tate: “Oh, sorry. Well, when they come on the podcast…” Rachel called it “so cute” that Seth was having “Ryan withdrawals.” Tate likened them to a “couple” when Seth was mad at breakfast and Ryan didn’t know why. Melinda liked Summer being concerned about her sunburn, calling it “very Orange County.” The spa scenes were “more layered” than Melinda remembered. Rachel: “This is really a big episode for you too.” Melinda noted how people are one way with their spouses and another with others. She said she saw “how manipulative” Julie is with the sob story she gave the Newpsies.
Melinda said if she was in Julie’s shoes, she’d start over together because all she and Jimmy have are each other (and their kids, of course). Tate pointed out that in divorcing Jimmy, it’s not like Julie “would get much money.” Rachel said Tate and Melinda were great together and a well-casted pairing. Tate revealed relatives would call him and tell him what a bad parent he was to Marissa. He asked Melinda if that happened to her. Melinda: “You know I based her on somebody you and I know very well.” They bleeped Melinda giving the name and Tate cracked up at whatever the name was. I wonder if it’s a private citizen they both know. Rachel didn’t have any reaction. Melinda said on set she and Tate would trade stories about this mystery person. Melinda: “I love having her in my life because she’s Julie Cooper.”
Rachel sarcastically called it a “great idea” that Seth took Kirsten’s Range Rover to the sketchy party. They laughed over how, for “story purposes,” they had Jimmy answer Sandy’s phone and wind up talking to Kirsten. Melinda called Julie’s Juicy outfit at the end of this scene “unfortunate.” They liked Julie’s line, “Kirsten, your concern for my husband is really touching.” Melinda: “She’s scary, actually.” Rachel: “She scared the shit out of me.” But Tate said Julie was “right” and Rachel agreed she was “justified.” He made an interesting comment on how while filming it, he felt like Jimmy and Julie were the “bad guys,” but now watching it, felt they were “totally justified in their feelings.” Rachel agreed. Tate: “I would be livid if my wife was talking to some old flame as we were about to get divorced.” Rachel amusingly erupted over Jimmy still having his prom photo with Kirsten on display: “How did that fly?!”
They were all shocked by the title of the Black Eyed Peas song that plays at the party because it has the R-word. Rachel called Seth “hilarious” at the party. Melinda said he was “experiencing life for the first time” and having “brand-new experiences.” Rachel thought it was “really sweet” that Marissa was making mac and cheese and waiting for Ryan. Tate, from a director’s POV, said the way the Range Rover was shot the next day was “so lame.” He said they tried to make it look damaged without actually damaging the real car and gave specific examples of the trickery. Melinda: “It fooled me!”
Melinda loved that both Julie and Kirsten had valid points but stood up to each other during the sauna session. She argued that Julie wasn’t “jealous,” but felt Kirsten was crossing a boundary. Melinda revealed that all the steam was done through CGI because Kelly was not okay with the oil typically used to create that effect in person. Melinda: “I remember being very grateful for that.” Rachel: “You both are really strong in that scene and you see these two strong lead female characters and I feel like that’s the first time you guys stand up and really show your strength.”
Rachel: “Ryan really fucks it up with Marissa.” They agreed it was “pretty cool” that Seth tried to fix things. Rachel pointed out how weird it is that everyone shows up at everyone else’s bedroom instead of their front door. Tate loved the sequence of Ryan and Marissa playing around at the pool and how it built the romantic tension between them. Melinda: “I can’t believe they haven’t kissed yet at this point, but I guess that’s television.” Rachel: “They’re so cute together.” Tate called that on-set pool “crazy.” It was only like two feet deep. Melinda: “I jumped in once and almost broke my ankle.” Rachel: “It’s the first time I think you’re falling in love with the idea of Ryan and Marissa fully.” Tate hilariously quipped that their relationship was “cheesy” because Ryan made grilled cheese for them after Marissa had been preparing macaroni and cheese.
I just thought of my own joke / pun: When Ryan is finally going to kiss Marissa, he gets cockblocked because Seth calls him and tells him Donnie has a gun. Get it? Anyway. Melinda called it “classic Summer” when Donnie tries to hit on her and she insults him. Rachel: “Who has the balls to be so [rude]… I was embarrassed for myself.” Tate: “Rich teenagers have the balls to do that… It was great that ‘The O.C.’ didn’t shy away from the privilege that rich teenagers feel all the time.” Melinda said she herself witnessed “pretty nasty fights” between the classes at such parties when she was growing up. Rachel laughed when she said “Luke gets shot” and amusingly added, “I mean, it’s not funny. Why am I laughing?” This made Tate and Melinda laugh too.
Tate claimed Ben thought the shooting was “so lame” and questioned why he had to be “the hero.” He explained, “Ben had a fear, as a lot of young actors do, of coming across ‘the hero.’... It puts a lot of pressure on a young actor because no one feels like a hero.” Melinda had yet another insightful observation about the shooting setting up “a great change for Chris’ character,” because now we have “sympathy” for Luke. Melinda: “And then we have, all of a sudden, these two enemies become friends. In the future, when Oliver shows up, you’ve got Luke [who] is the only one who has Ryan’s back… It sets up for us to start thinking about Luke with a different set of eyes.” Tate said Ryan did the “right thing” by calling Marissa and telling her to go to the hospital.
Tate and Rachel agreed the “best scene” of the episode was Kirsten and Julie in the limo. Melinda: “Of course in another Juicy suit and SO much makeup.” Rachel: “There was a lot.” Tate: “Even on me.” Melinda argued that while “Julie presents pretty superficial,” there’s a lot going on under the surface. Rachel: “You start to see where Julie is coming from and you feel for her. I did.” Tate said the scene was “so authentically acted” and complimented the way Melinda takes “arch lines” and makes them “sound reasonable.”
Melinda: “As the show went on and they started writing for my character, I very consciously thought I’m showing up with my dialogue memorized… and I’m going to take chances. There was something very loose and free and relaxing about the character. You could experiment every day and the writers would be inspired to write for the role. That’s where the collaboration comes in… We don’t get a lot of scenes with Julie like that until maybe the fourth season.” She then joked that she’s only doing the podcast to “get compliments from Tate.”
Melinda noted how Julie “instantly goes back to being a bitch” upon getting home and talking to Jimmy. Tate said he acted that scene with his chin up (literally) and didn’t listen when he was told to put it down. Then while recently filming something in New Orleans, a DP also told him to put his chin down “and I did it and it helped so much.” Melinda: “18 years later!” Tate: “18 years later, I learned [to] listen to the cameraman.” They spoke about getting into their heads and being “too aware” when acting. Being “free,” Melinda said, is what made their work so good, along with bringing in their own personalities.
Melinda: “I have a question for Tate, though. You’re friends with George Clooney. How is he?” The way she delivered that was hysterical. Tate: “I think he’s doing pretty good. I think he’s very happy to be a dad and he’s working tons. He’s directing.” Tate then clarified that he’s more friendly with George’s producing partner Grant Heslov than George himself. Rachel then brought up how Tate worked with and dated Sandra Bullock and once said that she “eats nothing but peppermint patties.” This cracked Tate up and he confirmed it’s true. Melinda: “Tate, you’re always so refreshing and honest. We’d be on set and he’d tell us stories about Jennifer Aniston and Sandra Bullock.” Rachel: “Who are they?”
Tate then said he’d gotten in “trouble” for some of the things he’s said about the young cast and that Adam got a bit angry with him for talking about them on “Watch What Happens Live” and calling them “knuckleheads.” Tate: “And I feel bad because everyone sorta jumped on that… I mean, I thought the whole cast was awesome, especially that first year. It was a total blast.” Rachel: “You’re clearing the air here.” Melinda said it’s “understandable” that the adults would have a “different perspective.” She argued that the young cast was “inundated” with press and pressure, so “who wouldn’t” act out a bit. Melinda: “Everyone has their own journey. I can understand their point of view as well.”
Tate was “excited” when Rachel told him they had “some quiz questions” for him. The first: What is the IMAX movie that Seth has tickets for in this episode? Tate: “It’s something totally lame. It’s hilarious.” He guessed it had to do with space, which was wrong. It was about sharks, though they never actually said the title here. The second: What episode do Ryan and Marissa finally kiss in and where? (They’ve asked this one before.) Tate said he didn’t remember but then said he did know, because he was in the editing room, and that it was when they kiss at the New Year’s Eve party. Rachel: “No, but that is a big moment for them.” Tate: “The music was incredible.” Absolutely — one of the show’s best music moments.
Tate: “One of the great experiences of my life was going to the editing room of Norman Buckley — he let me come in anytime. I’d sit for hours and watch him edit and put different music on. He was such a genius. He’s such a mentor. That’s a guy who loves to teach, loves to help people. I remember putting the music to that moment and how it just leapt out. But that wasn’t the first time they kissed, huh?” Rachel: “No. Having said all that, that’s wrong.” Tate could picture it after Melinda told him it was on the Ferris wheel in episode 9.
As they wrapped up with Tate, they reiterated how they want him to come back. He said he’d “love to revisit” the episode he directed. They briefly discussed how he moved to Austin. Rachel: “You are one of the coolest people in the world, Tate. I am so grateful to know you.” They then discussed getting together and having a reunion. Tate: “We’ll get totally baked and play capture the flag.” Melinda: “We should all be so happy as Tate Donovan.”
The first fan on the voicemail wanted to know if they took any props from the show or if there’s anything they wished they’d taken. Melinda said she has “mostly clothing items,” including a Chanel bag, leather coat, and shoes that don’t fit her anymore, plus the poster the cast signed for her daughter. (In the aforementioned interview, Melinda told me she has Julie’s diploma.) Rachel: “I don’t think I have anything. If I’m telling the truth, Schwartz wouldn’t give me the actual Princess Sparkle.” Instead she got hers “vintage off Etsy.” Rachel: “But it still counts.” Melinda said they have their Teen Choice Award surf boards, but Rachel admitted she doesn’t know where hers is. Melinda then realized that she has earrings that Rachel wore in an episode. Melinda: “I either have the exact same ones or I somehow ended up with them.” Rachel: “That’s really funny.”
The second fan on the voicemail asked what was the best season to film and most fun. Rachel said season 1 because they were first “discovering the characters and the storylines and having so much fun together.” Rachel: “I would say season 1 was the most fun for sure… if I could remember all of it.” Melinda said that with everything she’s ever done, there’s a “honeymoon stage,” when you start working in the spring and it doesn’t air til the fall, “where it’s so much fun” and everything is “new and original.” Melinda: “Lucky we were successful and had even more fun… The first season was really, really wonderful.”
So this edition was about 90 minutes, the second longest runtime after the debut installment. Is it bad that I like that the commercials take up time? They’re a way to catch my breath, so to speak, while the clock keeps running. Obviously, it took a long time to get to the actual episode, but when you have a long runtime, you can afford to spend that much time just strolling down memory lane. They still spent nearly 50 minutes discussing the episode in depth, which is impressive.
There was such an easy rapport between the three of them. It’s so clear how comfortable they are with one another and their chemistry. On top of that, I just love that they really get under the surface with the characters and scenes instead of talking about them at a superficial level. Melinda is putting down such insightful observations week after week. She’s a smart cookie, that one.
And frankly, how impressive is it to be only five episodes in and already have on the creator and two main cast members? Pretty damn impressive. On to the next one!
Reminder: TeenDramaWhore premium subscriptions include perks like exclusive content, fan interviews, trivia parties, and Zoom chats with the genre’s key players. Subscribe here!
Such a better podcast (committed hosts who do research—especially Melinda C.) than 9021OMG. I want to like 9021OMG this well, especially since I’ve lived with those characters and actors in my head for so, so long. However… sigh. rooting for them as much as I do is getting harder by the week.